Fail of the day
A quote from blue poster Aratil taken from MMOChampion:
Q: Crowd control is all but dead in raids. Is that something you plan on bringing back?
A: Like say… with the Faction Champions encounter in ToC? ;]
So much fail.
No sir, not like that at all. You understand that crowd control does not work at all like traditional PvE crowd control in that fight right? You understand that because the mobs in that fight have such large health pools and are effected by player CC so little that it pretty much invalidates quite a lot of crowd control right? You also understand that multiple mobs in that fight spam the hell out of dispels whenever one of them is under the effect of crowd control right?
No sir, not like that at all.
I thought the same when I saw it… a confused “wtf” formed in my mind as to whether that particular admin was on drugs that day or not.
latusthegoat´s last blog ..WoW Forum – Epic moderators
[Reply]
latusthegoat
24 Oct 09 at 1:07 am
Hmm – what’s your idea of “good crowd control”. TKE? Yeah – those mobs were a lot of fun. “OK, mage – you spam sheep on the star until we kill it. No, even when we’re DPSing it – you just spam sheep. Yes, that’s your only function in life – spam the sheep on the star”.
IDK about your guild – but when we were first learning Ulduar we used CC on the trash before XT, the trash to Freya, Thorim’s gauntlet, trash to Vezack, oh – and the trash to Kolo.
How many pulls do you want where CC is really required to make the pull possible?
Think about FC for a second – and I mean really open your mind and think about it – and what the meaning of Crowd Control really is.
“In a massive multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG), crowd control (also called CC) is the ability of one character to influence or prevent the abilities or actions of another character(s).” (taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowd_control_(MMORPG) )
So by using your cyclones, sheep, slows, traps, stuns – even if they are limited in duration – is still Crowd Control. Hitting a caster with a well timed stun or interrupt – a timely earthbind – all of these can buy you a few extra seconds.
I mean – would you discount CC in Arenas?
Just because it doesn’t fit your definition from Vanilla/BC – doesn’t mean it’s broken.
Adgamorix´s last blog ..What’s in a UI?
[Reply]
Chastity Reply:
October 27th, 2009 at 11:53 am
The problem is that that’s … well … a shitty definition.
By that logic *interrupts* count as Crowd Control as for that matter does *kiting*. Hell, spell pushback from damage and dispelling also qualify. As does just killing the bastards (can’t cast spells if you’re dead).
I don’t mean to answer on behalf of Shayzani, but what a lot of us miss about Crowd Control is a style of play involving more strategy and less, for want of a better term, “twitch”. It’s not about getting to press the Polymorph button, it’s about encounters which *require and allow* players to make a *strategic* decision to take a mob out of the fight until the others have been dealt with.
CC in PvP or “PvP-style” raid encounters is utterly different to CC in PvE. It’s a different approach to the game, which requires a different skillset. Saying that they’re the same because they use the same abilities is … well … like saying that Arena is the same as raiding because you’re using the same abilities. It’s flat out not true.
Chastity´s last blog ..A matter of perspective
[Reply]
Adgamorix Reply:
October 27th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
Again, I think you’re missing the point of what CC really is.
To use your definition – “it’s about encounters which *require and allow* players to make a *strategic* decision to take a mob out of the fight until the others have been dealt with.” – you are including off tanking. You are including having a hunter kite an add on the Moroes fight. And to this I agree.
So this is what I’m after – what are you ‘really’ looking for in a CC encounter? Do you really long for MGT where not having a mage in the group escalated the difficulty of the encounter by a large magnitude? Remember the trash in Shattered Halls – where you could use a trap, a kite, a sheep, a cyclone, and STILL have problems?
Bosses like Garr which required 4 or more warlocks to control the adds? MajorDomo who needed four mages for sheeping?
What really constitutes a CC?
Adgamorix´s last blog ..What’s in a UI?
[Reply]
Chastity Reply:
October 27th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
What really constitutes a CC?
If I may answer your question with a question, what do you actually expect by way of an answer?
Chastity´s last blog ..A matter of perspective
Adgamorix
26 Oct 09 at 3:12 pm
As it happens I wrote up a whole new post this afternoon to clarify my position on this! I’m glad you guys have been discussing the issue while I’ve been away, its a really interesting topic.
[Reply]
Shayzani
27 Oct 09 at 4:55 pm
I’m looking for what you would define as a great CC fight – or what you want to see added to the game that would ‘bring CC back’.
Fortunately, this chain has provided me some thoughts for my recent blog post where I look at CC from Vanilla to now.
The game has changed – the ‘definition’ of CC has not – just the method in which you apply it.
Adgamorix´s last blog ..The lost art of CC – and what it really means
[Reply]
Chastity Reply:
October 30th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
Sorry, got distracted by other things.
I actually think “great CC fight” as a concept misses the whole point of CC.
CC as I understand it isn’t flashy or cool or twitchy, it doesn’t make for exciting battles. By definition there are no “great CC fights”. CC is about *not* fighting.
Chastity´s last blog ..Friday Altaholism: Dude, Where’s My Terokkar
[Reply]
Adgamorix
27 Oct 09 at 4:56 pm